Vocaloid Wiki
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Bunai Di
Serza5
Kimi2.0
Angel Emfrbl
Xeyuzio
LaZMMiSY
Adept-eX
+8
• 3/6/2013

Page names

So we've had this come up recently since Xey is doing the fine comb of criticizing names (hey, this is actually helping make a point I'd made before).

We have no naming choosing method, thus we have a mix of things going on the wikia. Some have their product names, others have their codenames, others have their mascot names. Its becoming a confusion mess.

I'm thinking about splitting products and mascots from each other, so Hatsune Miku (CV01) will have its own page and so will Hatsune Miku Append have its own page. Hatsune Miku herself the mascot will be its own page.

It means templates will be adjusted accordingly, and its going to take a while to set things up. In the long run, things will be better, right now there is a little bit of a mess going on with pages like Miku and her page needs more of its content removed. This also takes opinion-based comments like S/W in the VB sections off the main vocaloid page and keeps the focused on the vocaloid itself.  :-/

I'm begining the experiement to see if this works with the CFM vocaloids, will revert things back if it doesn't work out. I ask everyone to have a little patience in regards to this. I won't know if this will work out until I try it.

(edited by administrators)
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Bunai Di
Serza5
Kimi2.0
Angel Emfrbl
Xeyuzio
LaZMMiSY
Adept-eX
+8
0
• 4/21/2013

The history is of the software not the mascot, thats why they've gone on the software pages.

"concept" holds everything you need to know about the mascot.

1
• 4/21/2013

No one even wanted to split the "mascot", as you call it with the "software", since they are unseparable. People want to know about the Vocaloid in general, splitting the two was a bad idea in the first place, but now you are just forcing people to juggle between pages to get the most basic information, as if it couldn't be all held in the one place, and it's only for the sake of that idea of yours....goddamnit, you know? At this rate, sticking with plain old wikipedia will be more practical.

This wikia needs more voting and less people deciding stuff on their own...

0
• 4/21/2013

Wikipedia also splits information if the article's subject becomes too lengthy to handle and becomes less reader friendly. Example, there use to be a lot of articles about shows that displayed Episode, Character, and Production listings on one page, when it got to a point that these shows had many seasons there were talks of splitting the content while keeping the primary article relatively intact with the basic information about the show.

To say Hatsune Miku's page was comfortable to scroll through (let alone edit) is laughable. There weren't comments about splitting pages but people have commented on the length of pages and also, while some contributors were helpful, trying to navigate to edit a certain section was a chore. So that was when Marketing and Music section became a template instead, but it was a temporary fix. And then there was the voice bank sections to deal with, each of which have their own information and sources including demos and history. We also have to consider people who don't use desktop or laptop computers, I've loaded this wiki on my template and long pages (primarily Crypton related) were a problem. The Wiki's front page is another matter but can be bypassed.

So using Wikipedia as an example isn't working because (as stated) they resort to page splitting to keep content in check and make it easier to maintain, and you also have to jiggle between pages to find the information you want. It is now common practice for Wikia wikis to create different articles relating to a character as it is the logical thing to do when that character has a lot of history. Compared to other wikis we were far behind on this and should have done it sooner. We have placed links at the top of the page, the middle and even the bottom for navigation purposes. For short pages, I can understand why page splitting seems odd, but having each page become drastically different from another is noticeable. Then you have VO claiming favoritism if it wasn't done.

0
• 4/21/2013

Yes. Hatsune Miku's page was problematic. And no one elses. Maybe Kagamines too.

But yet, everybody got to be splitted even if it was completely unnecessary for 95% of Vocaloids.

What favouritism? Miku has her own page with Million songs, her own page with featured songs, while all the other Vocaloids have theirs cramped on one page...how would creating a new page only for her be anything new or different? It has already happened.

It's okay that the strenght/weaknesses sections and other technical stuff got moved, but things like HISTORY should be somewhere on the first page, the one people are most likely to be looking for

0
• 4/22/2013

If Oasis wasn't the default skin I would somewhat agree about the non-Crypton Vocaloids. For whatever reasons people see this wiki as favoring Miku, even if she is the one of the most successful voicebanks and has an extensive history to cover. That and mainly for consistency- with the only exceptions being Akiko and Ueki who don't have public access. On more liberal notice, I think it looks neat and less squashed.

Depending on how it's done, you can summarize the voice banks under the voicebank sections for the Mascot's main pages. If the picture only thing is a problem.

0
• 4/22/2013

Sigh..summarize under voicebank sections? But most of these guys don't have much information in the first place, so what's there to summaraize...plus, history should be something you are welcomed with when you look up information...sighh...this is making my head hurt...

0
• 4/22/2013

I don't think its possible to "cover all things related" without going over Miku's stuff... A lot. (Miku is my LEAST favorite Vocaloid, I'm so bored of her stuff). Every time someone accuses the wikia of focusing on Miku I can see their point. There is SO MUCH on her compared to other vocaloids its stupid crazy at times. Theres nothing one can do about it either which annoys me whenever someone claims we focus too much on Miku.

There is simply no way to cover ALL THINGS vocaloid related and NOT heavily cover Miku... Don't remind me of how stupid this situation is. Until the other vocaloids catch up things are seesawed against them. Especially forgotten ones like Leon and Lola. ¬_¬

As for the songs, having no hand involved in them, I don't honestly know how things are going with them. I guess since many of the popular songs are based on Miku, or were originally the primary bulk of the wikia we inherited, its something we're stuck with. A LOT of the producers have Miku songs under their belt.

As for history, history is on the software, the focus of the wikia is the software "Vocaloid". Go to any page on wikipedia, what page puts the history of the software on the mascots page? If you read Mario or Sonic, you'll find their information is based on a summary of their backstory from the games, or their reception to the game. Go to the game and you'll find the "history" of the game. Ditto, go to actual software on wikipedia and its the same situation, even on vocaloids own page theres a history of the software.

I feel like your missing a point here Kim of the split. :-/

0
• 4/23/2013

Yes,  it's always me missing the point when I don't agree with you on something. God, you are the one who is missing th point. Mario and Sonic are no mascots either. They are main characters of their respective games. They have their own wikipedia pages, because they starr in numerous entries of games, movies, books and so on and have a lot of developments to cover during those twenty something years they exist.

How does that even matter, that comparision is nonsensical. Vocaloid is not a game. Its characters don't go through character development and don't have adventures inside the Vocaloid Editor that you can write a seperate article about.

But if you actually look thorugh wikipedia you will notice that the main article always tries to cover the most basic and important stuff like plot/story, characters , development and gameplay even if only as a short overview.

You know, like it should be here too.

The Vocaloid characters and their respective Vocaloid libraries are one. How many times do I have to repeat that? They are developed as one, marketed as one, treated as one, sold as one. The history of the software is the same as the character. Go to any game page on wikipedia and show me a page that would split the information into seperate articles about "concept" and into "development" parts.

Or better yet, let's stop with the nonsensical game examples and pick one that more accurately represents the situation here, go to any wikipedia site of an artist and show me a page that would split the biographical information of the artist from the information about their career? Would that make sense? No.

If articles are too big, they should be splitted, sure, but it also matters what you split and how. Now it just look as if characters and their libraries where two different unconnected parts, which they are not.

>the focus of the wikia is the software "Vocaloid"

Oh yeah? The wikia is called "Vocaloid wikia". While Vocaloid itself is singing synthesizer technology, true, but that word by now means much, much more that just that.

So please, don't force your views on what is "Vocaloid" on others. I don't care if you call them 'mascots' or whatever, it's bad enough the word 'mascot' appears bright as day on the goddamn main page, because I'm yet to see a company who would refer to their characters as such.

But show me one Vocaloid oriented site, or any site, that would split the information about characters from their voicebanks.

I don't care if you think the plot is irrelevant in games, and that just gameplay is enough. The authors obviously wanted it to be there and the game is sold together with it.

I don't care if you think that the singer's image and what they do is irrelevant and the only thing that matter is the music they create.

It's not really your right to decide what's important and on which should people focus.

Basically my point is, the reason for the split was Miku page and the amount of information about voicebank it had. So it's the only thing that should have been splitted from the page.

I know you don't see my point at all and won't agree with me and I'm not saying you should and I'm aware my ranting probably won't change anything.

But this is the place that is supposed to serve the community first and foremost.

I just wish more people had the say in how things are managed here and that a huge changes like the one you did weren't decided by just one person.

Even if you created this thread, what point was there. People were saying they don't like the change, and that it's not necessary for every Vocaloid, but in the end, that didn't change anything...

0
• 4/23/2013

I could always fix up the history for the software/mascots as looking up Cul's Software page it's un-necessary to mention the how VocaloRevolution appearance (besides the fact it inspired the product).


Much like how I was going to add software boxart to the software pages but got too lazy/stressed >_>"


All i'm willing to say about the split is that a character can be associated with many products. In the game example you get certian characters like Mario in (obviously) the Mario series but you also find him in sub-series like Super Smash Bros, heck first time Mario appeared in any game was in Donkey Kong (Which clearly has nothing to do with Mario as a game series, just the character Mario).


Putting this back into a Vocaloid sense you have Miku who has a V2 and Append software, the character Miku essentially makes a link between these 2 sister products which aren't the same. Miku also has links to the Project Diva games as she appeared in them, this however is not directly linked to the actual Vocaloid software, even though the voices from the software have been used (The software in itself is not part of the game, just the product(s) of the software, much like an image from Photoshop). Basically the character pages act as a link between things that are related to the product in-directly.


I'll give you that it doesn't seem all that necessary for all Vocaloids besides the Cryptons ( + Gumi) but personally I find it neater to have it for all Vocaloids.

0
• 4/23/2013

So now you guys are just going to continue this tree of "i'm right / no, i'm right" until one of you figures out how to stop and realize that what is done is done.

Anyway, I will not be moving Kamui Gakupo to Camui Gackpo unless SSW themselves state otherwise. If producers and fanart like to be literal with the name then that is them. You can't have one name change without realizing other names also have two forms of romanizing.

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